As Traditional Values collide with Progressive Hopes and Visions. The old are syncretized to fit the new. As a Noticer, I observe, I research and I share. Join me in exploring the effects of CHANGE and the events that drive it in culture, media and politics through dynamics in Practice and Policy across the globe. This is truly an amazing time to be living! For other types of postings, paste www.jackandcarlayoutube to your browser and open and explore posts and Powerlinks.
Showing posts with label false information. Show all posts
Showing posts with label false information. Show all posts
I recently got a question from someone I think very highly of and was surprised with what I found in answering his question.
Hey! I thought I'd share this and ask your opinion. I feel that this is not a particular incendiary video in this day and age....
Do you think the guy being interviewed is misinformed or spreading false information? He kind of represents what I was trying to communicate about Israel and Palestine.
Human Rights Watch Founder - and Holocaust Survivor - Accuses Israel of Genocide on CNN
I listened carefully to the response presented by the international
activist Aryeh Neier, who Co-founded, “Human Rights Watch,” and was active President
of the George Soros Open Society Institute for almost two decades. Neier is a new
name to me but Soros is not and Soros’ reach and connections are very vast and very
wide. But before I talk about Soros and Neier, I want to respond to the content
of the video.
First, it equates the remorseless attackers as displayed by
continuing rocket attacks and the continued holding and killing of hostages with
those seeking to protect their population and eliminate a proven overwhelming
and deadly threat as being equal in guilt for their actions. They are not.
The tasks they are trying to achieve are completely different even if the
results of their attempt result in similar destructive outcomes. This was not the first attack, and the only reason that the Nation of Israel still exists is her success in fighting off and disincentivizing her attackers. These attackers are very motivated.
But many of the actions taken by the Israeli Government to implement their internationally sponsored occupation through the transfer of land ownership has had tragic results. Therefore many hope for a second Palestinian State or a constitutional process that creates greater equality and representation for minority ethnic groups. The very informative video at the end of this posttitled, "The Story of Palestinian Christians | The Stones Cry Out | (2013) full film, presents the Palestinian Christian situation. Their struggle does not include the extremes of Jihad with the destructive annihilation of the Jews. So diplomatic problem solving options are more reasonable.
Second, his report misrepresents the situation by failing to
present the facts of the battlefield they are forced to fight in including the
tunnels network.
Third, Hamas gave no warning other than decades of public training
for and verbally teaching their children the concept that killing their Jewish
neighbor is something to be honored with lifelong respect and financial reward to
the families and public recognition of the fighters in their culture. This is
the most difficult factor in the conflict. This honoring is displayed well in
the Palestinian Prison video below.
Fourth, Instead of developing wealth and tourist infrastructure
along their coast, Hamas’s 18 year priority has been to create an underground military
operations network and amass vast amounts of armaments and train a virtual army
for the task of brutally celebrating the public extermination of their
neighbors as occurred in the October 7th event.
Origins of the conflict. Palestine was not
vanquished by the aggressive aspirations of her neighbor Israel. The conditions Palestine experienced were first imposed by international
edict at the end of WWII. Palestine’s
military losses came only as a result of their earlier aggressive activity and attacks
on the newly formed State of Israel.
In comparison, Israel takes steps to reduce
civilian casualties and routinely gives warning requesting noncombatants to
leave the areas of conflict before most planned operations. But Israel has no
power to remove Palestinian residents that are willing to die as martyrs (displayed
in the video) and who refuse to leave or are not allowed to leave and
intentionally kept in harms way by Palestine’s governing authorities (Hamas) who
have established near dictatorial power over their population, although this
same population is deeply committed and remains the source of where they draw
their fighters and public support from.
This is important because Hamas leadership and fighters have
intentionally created and located themselves in a tunnel network that often extends
under public buildings including schools and hospitals. These tunnels require
much larger scale munitions to destroy than routine surface targets.
Hence
the legitimate need for the heavy weapons.
The problem Neier describes as the failure to provide
relief, and the collateral destruction of personal gardens and farms, food
shortages, and the ensuing condition of famine that is inevitable unless Hamas
surrenders is a historical key ingredient of successful warfare. It has been
strategy #1 for centuries, like using water when you wash your car. The
solution is for Hamas to surrender. If Hamas surrenders the killing and
starvation of the supporting population will end immediately. Most of the
fighters will be imprisoned and live in relative safety, (as shown in the
video.) Due to their long established culture of honoring terrorist fighters they
will be regarded as heroes during their incarceration and their families will
be honored and financially cared for by their government.
Consider this excellent film that presents the Palestinian
perspective of the fighter’s idealism of suffering for their cause as well as Israel’s
attempt to control this socio-religious-cultural problem in a humanitarian way
and tell me which approach you think is more just. It is titled,
What Are The Conditions Of Palestinian Prisoners In Israeli Jails? | Hot House (2006) | Full Film by Journeyman Pictures
And now to Soros…
Soros is a complex and very, very powerful person. His power
extends on an international, even global scale into all areas of culture and
finance.
He is able to operate in this fashion through his personal
wealth that he expanded from what was amassed by his father and others who
assisted the Germans in pillaging the wealth of his fellow Jews during the
holocaust. In this sense, he and Neier have a lot in common.
Since WWII George Soros and his followers have been
responsible for intentionally creating multiple extreme financial disruptions,
sometimes on a near global scale. He is the virtual oligarch of the oligarchs,
and could fit the typology of an “anti-Christ,” better than anyone else that I
am aware of. Consider the 60 minute interview below From the time it was made
in 1998, Soros’ power and wealth and influence have only mushroomed. The second
video is a description of some of his activist political action. Here it is done
against a loyal leftist candidate that fully supports the Soros agenda, but his success would interfere
with the success his opponent that Soros favors, so Soros intervenes to control the outcome. His billions have repeatedly
organized and financed massive global protests and riots on a near continuous basis
including many of today’s anti Israel
riots.
Billionaire George Soros Puts Big Money Into Local Races
(HBO)
Going back to the 60 Minutes video… I find it interesting that
he was so directly involved in creating the current Haiti situation and that he was compared
so directly with Donald Trump. Certainly their aspirations are often similar.
Have you been following the Haiti
situation? Criminal cartels hired by the political parties to enforce rule? How
about Mexico’s
election and the 250 murdered candidates? Last election it was only 136. Do you
think we are going to see the failure of Democracy on a global scale?
(PS) Currently your older brother is very concerned about our
situation here in America.
He worries about our political/religious condition. He sees the politically
powerful as intentionally trying to radicalize vulnerable Trump followers. He
believes that the ongoing and very blatant persecution of Trump and his family
are intentional pre-planned strategies to instill anger and fuel rage in the
population that will result in armed conflict, much like the Hamas fighters. Not
just protests, but armed organized conflicts that will ultimately justify our
Government in taking our freedoms away,
All this is much like what Edward Bernays’ said in his 1928
book titled, “Propaganda.”
A quote from the book.
“"The conscious and intelligent
manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important
element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of
society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power.”
I see it as a sort of control directed by ideas and expressions
of idealism. To be honest, recognizing this kind of power is the motivation
behind why I write.
Personally, I liked the kind of idealism that was displayed
in the HBO John Adams story much better. But understanding other cultural
expressions of idealism is necessary if we want to gain understanding.
In Early America, this role was played by church leaders and
a, “melting pot,” prioritization system occurred. There, good leadership
resulted in seeking mutual respect of humanity in very challenging social environments. But it was
preceded by course manipulation. Remember our talk about the religious wars of Europe and leaders that created offences and the need to
kill those who ate the (actual body) of Christ with their teeth, even as they
personally viewed this teaching as superstition. It was a deadly form of self
righteous hypocrisy!
Today, since the free distribution of cell phones to the
masses under Obama, and the elimination of our historical voting requirements
due to expectations of inclusion, our dumbed down population seems to be fed a diet of shallow
narratives aimed at those with little to no real interest or attention span.
Today, truly informed voters are sure to be a very slim
minority.
Will you choose to look beyond the prescribed narratives?
So enough of my thoughts. In light of all of this. What do you see?
PS... for balance, I have included the following video. Above I minimized the extreme actions of the Israelis due to the extreme circumstances they face with their Arab neighbors. But the video below gives history on how extreme their action have been to all of the residents of Palestine since they were first given control in the late 1940's. These extremes actions and policies are certainly the key to the continuing conflict.
The Story of Palestinian Christians | The Stones Cry Out | (2013) full film Journeyman Pictures
His Response...
I am amazed in the current world how differently the same information is processed and viewed by people living side-by-side. I often wonder if that has to do with information being so available and us people getting overloaded with it all. I will try to stick mostly to your responses and I think you will see what I mean.
1. You stated that the video I shared "equates" the remorseless terrorist attacks of Hamas with the actions of Israel to protect its people. I did not get that from the interview at all. The opening states that the International Court of Justice called for the arrest of Netanyahu alongside Hama's leaders for crimes against humanity and genocide. Otherwise, Hamas is almost not mentioned at all. I don't think that Hamas is mentioned in the interview because there was no doubt in either mind that Hamas is truly guilty of crimes against humanity... so there was nothing to discuss there. In my opinion, no serious-minded and informed person thinks Hamas is acting in good faith. It is a parasite kept strong by the tension between Israel and Palestine and the lack of power and safety felt by many Palestinians. The fact that they discuss Israel's tactics is an admission that Israel is at least trying to appear to act in good faith on the world stage... and it seems to be losing that battle.
2. It fails to report facts of the battlefield when forced to fight insurgents in tunnels. This is true, but seems immaterial to me unless you consider it a good reason to drop bombs that take out city blocks in order to destroy tunnels. Rafah is a 25 square mile place... about half the size of Vancouver, WA. There are 1.125 million people there... that is about 45,000 per square mile, VERY populated. I share the concern of Neier with the use of large ammunition that can "kill someone from 2 football fields away" in such a location. When Israel was bombing such population centers in Jan-Feb, they were averaging about 60-70% of deaths being women and children. Things have improved since the US stopped giving them such weapons. To me, that was not a fair trade-off for the cost of war to take out underground tunnels, but the interview actually gives Israel a "free pass" on that and focuses on forced famine.
3. Hamas gave no warning for its attack and has built a culture that wants to kill Jews. This is not discussed in the video, but I have no argument against this statement. For the most part, Palestinians have not accepted the changing of their borders by outside governments from the beginning, since Jewish people started arriving there due to Russian pogroms... but protected by Russian citizenship. There is classic 1900s anti-semitism attached to this sentiment that stretches back to well-before before WWII.
4. Hamas has not invested in Gaza, focusing on building tunnels and training fighters. Again, not part of the video, but there is certainly some truth there. I think it is a bit simplistic to say that, but mostly true. Hamas derived its power from conflict with the "bad guys", much like Netanyahu has. Every conflict over the years has bolstered support for both sides. Politically, there isn't really an incentive for peace for those in power. It is a travesty that Hamas does not take care of its people in other ways better. Does that mean the Palestinian population deserves bombing and famine? I would argue no.
5. Farm destruction and famine is a cost of war. Hamas needs to surrender if it wants its people fed. That is a perspective I would push back on a bit. You just said that Hamas is not interested in anything but perpetuating a war, building tunnels, killing Jews. If that is true, why make an argument about what they should do like they are going to suddenly change priorities.
Also, as Mr. Neier discusses the targeting of supplies by Israeli settlers and even troops in the west bank, photos are shown of food trucks tipped over on roads in Israel, spoiling the food. I don't see the obstruction and despoiling of food meant for a starving population as a "cost of war". I see it as a war crime. There are currently hundreds of thousands of people without running water, without hospitals, and without food and aid has been pretty systemically blockaded by Israel. I cannot lay that all at the feet of Hamas. It is a war crime to “intentionally use starvation of civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of objects indispensable to their survival, including wilfully impeding relief supplies as provided for under the Geneva Conventions.”
If Israel is withholding supplies with the goal of forcing Hamas to surrender, as you intimate: That is defined as a war crime.
If Israel is withholding supplies with the goal of making people evacuate the Gaza strip as refugees, that is a for of Genocide. Ironically, that is the for of genocide that gave birth to Israel in the first place!
If Israel is just engaging in war and withholding and despoiling supplies is part of that, with no "goal", then they are not engaged in an ethical war like they argue.
Basically, I think that Israel has some things to answer for. That does not remotely exonerate Hamas. That does not equate the two things... Hamas and Israel are two completely different bodies that cannot be compared in that way.
As for prisons, I agree that most prisoners in Israel are treated well. Certainly better than prisoners of Hamas!
As for Soros, I think your fascination with him distracts from the other stuff and clouds the issue. Whether he is a good or bad guy has little to do with Israel and whether Neier knows him has little to do with whether I can trust his statements. For the same reason, I don't engage in speculation about what kinds of shenanigans Trump got into with Epstien. To me, those kinds of speculations are not as productive as they seem at first. :-) Perhaps we can discuss Soros another time seperately?
Anyway, that is what I see. Either the statements are lies or they are true. I feel that they are true and that Israel, despite its arguments, is engaged in near total war in a major population center against a weak adversary and is punishing the general population unduly. I think that there is no great new threat to Israel that requires these actions. I think that their actions are cutting them off from the support of the world and ensuring a strong Hamas for decades in the future... also likely ensuring the political power of Netanyahu and his zionist allies.
I worry that cooler heads do not prevail in the current climate. I believe that the MAGA religion is a part of that and can sympathize with my brother's concerns, though I don't look at things and see any "blatant" persecution... just a guy who is great at complaining to his many religious followers. I am not looking forward to next January no matter who wins... which is a sad state of affairs.
I think that is all I have for the moment. I hope that we can keep communicating. That is important to me!
Thanks for taking the time to look at my response. The CNN piece was (typical) for both CNN and FOX News. Rather than presenting the who, what, where, when, and why it went directly to summary and then to authoritative/activist, criticism much like Saul Akinski trained activists are encouraged to do.
Mr. Neier didn't even bother to qualify his criticisms. This is the narrative effect in a nutshell. It's purpose is to create emotional response, not to provide history or context. In the bombings of London by Hitler that I mentioned in my earlier post, the population was spared for the most part by the use of subway and subway-like bomb shelters. In Gaza, Hamas, not the civilians have continued to occupy the underground network. This is the fact that requires Israel's use of heavy munitions. If the target is Hamas, they have no choice but to use heavy munitions. Israel must either accomplish their goal of conquering Hamas, or accept a continued Hamas presence. Hamas is the enemy that escalated the conflict to multiple organized mass attacks and the killing of whole communities. This is the critical piece of information that Neier chose to minimize and ignore.
In this type of interview, the speaker's credentials become the critical swaying ingredient. The facts are secondary or even absent. But I am not surprised. Mr. Neier has met my expectation. In my opinion and his credentials are below toilet grade.
I have been following the People for the American Way and other Soros organizations for decades, and Mr. Neier was President there for over 12 years. He is very likely to be criminal like Mr Soros. Watch the Soros material. (You will hear him speaking unapologetically about intentionally destroying regional economies single handedly.) Unfortunately there are no laws to protect from the kind of harm he often commits.
On the integrity level, I refuse to take a position without context. Therefore, I added the videos.
To add context, not opinion. The GAZA situation is tragic at best, but the Jail video covers the election of Hamas and how the prisoners' very lives drastically improved due to their incarcerations. It also allowed them to present their POV's for me to hear directly from them, to gain context. I want to hear their opinion. Not those that claim to speak for them. The other, "Stones Cry Out," video tells the tragic effects of the Post War, UN imposed boundaries on all non-Jewish ethnic groups. This video is very critical of Israel's actions and does look not favorably on the Jewish National leadership. Both videos were made by the same website. Together they present at least some context.
Additional context,... Israel has had a death penalty on their books since they formed, but it has only been carried out two times in the country's 75 year history. The culture of the surrounding countries freely impose the death penalty on tens of thousands for violating of common Western cultural norms, and their Holy Book, glorifies the act of exterminating all, "non-submissive," Jews. Therefore, Israel's sense of threat and necessity to show themselves strong to survive is real, not imagined.
(Click link below to see chronological list up to current date.)
The list above has an extensive accounting of bombings and other attacks. Considering that the 2023 score of the list is 4,890 Israelis killed and 18,787 injured, compared to 2 capital punishment deaths. (And yes, I know tens of thousands of Gazan's in collateral damage.)
It appears that when the Israeli's have other options, they choose the others. These also are often very harsh by Western standards, like seizure of their property and incarcerating activists with very long sentencing, and even blowing up the family home......
But a Hamas surrender would at least stop the bombings in Gaza. Perhaps restarting the conversation for seeking (MUTUAL) improvements at the UN, or with other negotiators could be accepted. But unless Hamas surrenders the tragedy will continue to escalate. I am convinced that international pressure for Hamas to surrender could lessen the loss of civilian lives greatly! Especially if an effective ceasefire were to occur. But I also think this is unlikely as Hezbollah's support is already heavily engaged in the conflict as a direct ally of Hamas.
But a Hamas surrender would at least stop the bombings in Gaza.
A couple of more links that present more on the history of this troubled region of the world, including what appears to be a religious social system that parallels Western Sociaslism.
